Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
advertisement
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
Visit jmtoriel's column >>

JMTORIEL

Articles Posted: 0  Links Seeded: 38
Member Since: 9/2007  Last Seen: 3/16/2010

What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Canada's image lies in tatters. It is now to climate what Japan is to whaling

Seeded on Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:57 PM EST
Read ArticleArticle Source: Guardian Unlimited
politics, climate-change, global-warming, copenhagen, cop15
Seeded by jmtoriel
advertisement

Canada is enemy #1 in Copenhagen -- really.

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Published to:

  • jmtoriel's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: Alternative Energy - Greenvine, Brave New World, Breaking News, California Issues, Climate Change, Corporate Watchdogs, Corporatism, EconVine, Environment, Eurovine, Free Market, Grey Boomers, Unite!, Gut Check America, Happy with Corporate America?, HealthVine, Left of Center, Newsvine International, Oil, Our Orwellian World, Permaculture, The Green Room, The Truth Network, uk-news, Worldviews
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (12)
truthlover

The amazing turn of Canada... from the peaceful country portrayed by Michael Moore a few years ago to this: a nation effectively run by the Shale Oil Barons and intent on blocking every international move to slowing carbon emissions. Unbelievable but true. It's all greed: the wealthy influence of the shale oil industry, the pressure from Shell Oil and BP (remember? Beyond Petroleum?), and now scuttling its own promises from Kyoto and trying to derail any other positive changes on carbon emissions. A very backward government, bought and sold in the interests of Big Shale Oil. Where are the Canadian people on this one???

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Dec 1, 2009 6:01 AM EST
Glinda

According to a poll conducted in concert with the debate for which Mr. Monbiot is coming to Toronto, nationwide 2/3 of Canadians agree with the statement "Climate Change is Mankind’s Defining Crisis" -- with higher support in the east, and much lower support in the west where they have bet the farm (literally) on the tar sands.

So here I am, watching the astonishing spectacle of a beautiful, cultured nation turning itself into a corrupt petro-state. Canada is slipping down the development ladder, retreating from a complex, diverse economy towards dependence on a single primary resource, which happens to be the dirtiest commodity known to man. The price of this transition is the brutalisation of the country, and a government campaign against multilateralism as savage as any waged by George Bush."

It is simultaneously shameful and a relief to have my country exposed in this way. This government has hidden itself for too long.

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Tue Dec 1, 2009 2:33 PM EST
Reply
truthlover

And, according to the author, who has an extremely good track record, there is a move afoot to throw Canada out of the Commonwealth. Haven't heard about this before OR the horrible environmental track record of Canada under its conservative (read: right-wing pro-financial rewards for the rich, do not read: true conservative) government.

  • 4 votes
Reply#2 - Tue Dec 1, 2009 6:09 AM EST
CL1

"By demonstrating that climate sanctions aren't worth the paper they're written on, it threaten to render any treaty struck at Copenhagen void." Now that's a twist, it isn't the US this time, the real villain is Canada. Who knew! (:

  • 4 votes
Reply#3 - Tue Dec 1, 2009 6:42 PM EST
Canbyte

As a Canadian not involved in the tar sands, I can vouch for my support of my PM using his elbows to knock some sense into the naive greenies of this world whose wild imaginings and corrupted science threaten to derail any recovery, not to mention, our collective future as democratic nations. Hooray for the tar sands. It may not be pretty, but its ugly. Same as the processes used to make the gadget you are now looking at or typing on. Check it out. But if you want to go back to living in caves, sure, restrict Carbon by 80% as the treaty calls for. Then you'll find out your fantasies of green alternatives are just that, fantasies. But by then it will be too late. When we finally wake up to the fact its probably the sun melting ice on Mars as well as earth, we will have lost all democratic rights and ability to correct the mistake as mandated by clause 38 of your precious treaty. But i'll bet none of you has even read clause 38 or contemplated the severity of the treaty's prescriptions.

Whats your beef with Canada anyway? The tar stuff is mostly mined by Americans for Americans. So why is a small Canada penalized for the big needs of its large neighbour. Let the US carry any penalty. And if that customer wants to use another fuel, the tar sands can sit happily untouched for another hundred years until we really need the stuff because everything else will be gone (peak oil). Then you will love our tar to bits anyway.

And that democracy stuff, check it out

http://canbyte.newsvine.com/_news/2009/11/28/3559804-cooking-the-frog-slowly-

  • 1 vote
Reply#4 - Tue Dec 1, 2009 9:13 PM EST
truthlover

You make the good and valid point that the oil mining is, in fact, to feed the insatiable appetite of America (and China--you forgot?). It's like the opium growers who are only feeding the appetites of heron users, many in the United States.

Other than that, you are in a dream land of denial. Global warming and climate change are for real... hope you're not in a house sitting on permafrost. Odds are, your an urban sort, out of touch with the truth of climate change. :-)

I certainly agree with one of the conclusions of your link... habeas corpus has been given up by both Americans and Canadians. We've become nations of sheep, manipulated by media and glib politicians. That's sad. But denying the science behind climate change, or citing the fact that the worst results won't happen before many of us are dead, doesn't really support the Oil Barons tearing up parts of Canada, does it? (That's meant to be rhetorical but you are invited to answer of course.)

  • 3 votes
#4.1 - Wed Dec 2, 2009 2:51 AM EST
truthlover

Canbyte, in addition, regarding your link, there's nothing there to oppose taking global warming very very seriously. There is a serious concern about a clause in the current Copenhagen bill... if in fact clause 38 gives a world group control over Canadian and US money (which would be important to verify), then this is a horrific back-door move toward world government and needs to be stopped. These ISSUES are separate (climate change vs. world government) but, to the degree that they have been united in the current treaty, this POLICY (the treaty) needs to be changed... or blocked.

  • 4 votes
#4.2 - Wed Dec 2, 2009 4:42 AM EST
Glinda

George Monbiot is a "Guardian columnist, lauded environmentalist and award-winning author" (Toronto Star). Besides not being involved in the tar sands Canbyte, what are your credentials and how about providing some support for your opinions?

I saw George Monbiot on The Agenda (TVO) and he is not anti-Canadian - in fact he speaks very glowingly about our people and our former excellent reputation.

"I've always had the standard international view of Canada, which is that it's a sophisticated, responsible, peaceful nation with friendly intentions toward the rest of the world. I'm sure that as far as most of its people are concerned that remains the case," he said. "But somehow a dynamic has been created within this wonderful nation which is allowing the government to do some terrible things."

  • 2 votes
#4.3 - Wed Dec 2, 2009 11:03 AM EST
truthlover

I don't know what you need my credentials--which are pretty good--for. What statement have I made that makes you unsure? That you need evidence for? Let me know and I'll provide backup. Credentials are not necessarily good support and fall into the informal fallacy argumentum ad auctoritatem.

I don't know why you don't think I love Canada. I do. It is a much better country than the United States in many ways. What I don't love and what surprised me (and was pointed out to me by someone who loves Canada and was raised in Canada) is that Canada is the main country trying to break any global deals on reducing carbon emissions. That pains me--it would not pain me if it did not shatter my overly idealistic view of Canada.

  • 2 votes
#4.4 - Wed Dec 2, 2009 6:38 PM EST
Glinda

truthlover, I was asking Canbyte.

    #4.5 - Thu Dec 3, 2009 12:43 PM EST
    Reply
    Canbyte

    Glinda looks to make ad hominem attack which is entirely immaterial. Well, my first qualification is Canadian Citizen, which i take seriously, and which prompted my concern about clause 38. Glad that point got across ... to Truthlover anyway. Other qualifications: recycler, developer, solar heaters, roof gardens, environmentalist, but not the closed minded kind. My enginnering background gives me a great deal of apprehension about the type and magnitude of the changes impractical beetle counters are trying to foist on us.

    Regardless, I need no qualifications to question the provenance of the science you cite, its funding, its manipulation by politicians and hypsters such as you, and its omissions. Until the process is truly transparent and all possibilities are checked out (which you oppose), I see no reason to rush the draconian measures the treaty calls for. After all, Vikings were happy to grow grapes in Greenland before industrial growth, and their descendants will be happy to do so again - in a much warmer climate and long after you brilliant genii have imposed massive industrial destruction on half the world to no avail. Don't get me started on the silliness you call green technology.

      Reply#5 - Wed Dec 2, 2009 7:02 PM EST
      cimarron-1085430

      Good for Canada-who has the right to push this magnificent country around?

        Reply#6 - Sun Dec 6, 2009 7:51 AM EST
        Leave a Comment:
        You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
        You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
        (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
        Newsvine Privacy Statement
        As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
        FUN STUFF:
        • Leaderboard |
        • E-Mail Alerts |
        • Top of the Vine |
        • Newsvine Live |
        • Newsvine Archives |
        • The Greenhouse |
        COMPANY STUFF:
        • Code of Honor |
        • Company Info |
        • Contact Us |
        • Jobs |
        • User Agreement |
        • Privacy Policy |
        • About our ads
        LEGAL STUFF:
        • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
        • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
        • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com